The Democratic comptroller’s spokesman, Scott Sieber, said Liu supported the project. The center has sparked an intense debate over U.S. religious freedoms and the sanctity of the Trade Center site, where nearly 3,000 perished in the September 11, 2001 attack.
“If it turns out to be financially feasible and if they can demonstrate an ability to pay off the bonds and comply with the laws concerning tax-exempt financing, we’d certainly consider it,” Sieber told Reuters.
Spokesmen for Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Governor David Paterson and the Islamic center and were not immediately available.
Category: Islam
Unbelievable: US Department of Justice halts prosecution of U.S.S. Cole Bomber
I do believe I might have been wrong about this President…..and terrorism. You know, I tried to give this President a break and not take the hardcore stance against him, when it came to this issue —- mainly because of the stupidity around the Birther issue. However, I am really starting to wonder, if that might have just been a tragic mistake. I mean, seriously? Shelve a trial of a sub-human farking animal that killed 17 of our brightest and best serviceman?
The Obama administration has shelved the planned prosecution of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the alleged coordinator of the Oct. 2000 suicide attack on the USS Cole in Yemen, according to a court filing.
The decision at least temporarily scuttles what was supposed to be the signature trial of a major al-Qaeda figure under a reformed system of military commissions. And it comes practically on the eve of the 10th anniversary of the attack, which killed 17 sailors and wounded dozens when a boat packed with explosives ripped a hole in the side of the warship in the port of Aden.
In a filing this week in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, the Justice Department said that “no charges are either pending or contemplated with respect to al-Nashiri in the near future.”
The statement, tucked into a motion to dismiss a petition by Nashiri’s attorneys, suggests that the prospect of further military trials for detainees held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has all but ground to a halt, much as the administration’s plan to try the accused plotters of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in federal court has stalled.
Only two cases are moving forward at Guantanamo Bay, and both were sworn and referred for trial by the time Obama took office. In January 2009, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates directed the Convening Authority for Military Commissions to stop referring cases for trial, an order that 20 months later has not been rescinded.
Military officials said a team of prosecutors in the Nashiri case has been ready go to trial for some time. And several months ago, military officials seemed confident that Nashiri would be arraigned this summer.
It’s politics at this point,” said one military official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss policy. He said he thinks the administration does not want to proceed against a high-value detainee without some prospect of civilian trials for other major figures at Guantanamo Bay.
A White House official disputed that.
“We are confident that the reformed military commissions are a lawful, fair and effective prosecutorial forum and that the Department of Defense will handle the referrals in an appropriate manner consistent with the interests of justice,” said the official, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity.
The Defense Department issued a statement Thursday saying the case is not stalled. “Prosecutors in the Office of Military Commissions are actively investigating the case against Mr. al-Nashiri and are developing charges against him,” the statement said.
With the 10th anniversary of the Cole bombing approaching on Oct. 12, relatives of those killed in the attack expressed deep frustration with the delay.
“After 10 years, it seems like nobody really cares,” said Gloria Clodfelter, whose 21-year-old son, Kenneth, was killed on the Cole.
In case you have forgotten, these are the names of those killed on the U.S.S. Cole on Oct. 12, 2000: (H/T and thanks to Michelle Malkin)
Electronics Technician 1st Class Richard Costelow
Mess Management Specialist Lakina Francis
Information Systems Technician Tim Guana
Signalman Seaman Recruit Cherone Gunn
Seaman James McDaniels
Engineman 2nd Class Mark Nieto
Electronics Warfare Technician 3rd Class Ronald Owens
Seaman Recruit Lakiba Parker
Engineman Fireman Joshua Parlett
Fireman Apprentice Patrick Roy
Electronics Warfare Technician Kevin Rux
Petty Officer 3rd Class Ron Santiago
Operations Special 2nd Class Timothy Sanders
Fireman Gary Swenchonis Jr
Ensign Andrew Triplett
Seaman Apprentice Craig Wibberly
Hull Maintenance Technician 3rd Class Kenneth Clodfelter.
All because of politics, because he was supposedly “Tortured”. How is it, that sub-human animals like this have more rights than say your average person on the street?
AllahPundit is not impressed one bit:
If, however, the unnamed official quoted is right about the administration’s motives, it confirms what we’ve assumed all along about The One’s tribunal/civilian court protocol: Ain’t nothing but politics. For all his grandiose talk of due process, prosecuting the detainees has always been a game in which he balances the likelihood of conviction with the likelihood of civil-liberties political pageantry. If he can get a guilty verdict in a federal district court so that he can crow about the Constitution, he’ll do that; if he can’t, as is likely in the case of Nashiri, he’ll simply dump the guy in a tribunal so that at least he can crow about the conviction. See? He really is a pragmatist. And speaking of grandiose talk, go read Slublog’s recap of statements Obama made during the campaign — and directly to families of the Cole victims — about not dragging our feet in prosecutions. Just words?
Heck, even a liberal is not impressed; Blogger EmptyWheel over at FireDogLake Blog is not impressed:
Which of course means that our government (though the article suggests this is a distinction between the Bush and Obama Administrations, since Gates–though he spans both Administrations–has not ordered the Convening Authority to start referring cases) has decided it’s okay to try Omar Khadr, who was 15 and arguably acting in self-defense for his alleged crime, in a military commission. But not to try al-Nashiri, at least allegedly a genuine terrorist.
To be fair, the WaPo suggests the Administration is holding off until it can have civilian trials for other High Value Detainees (presumably, still the 9/11 conspirators). So it may well be a supportable goal. But it all seems to add to the Kangaroo stench around the military commissions.
You know, I am just going to say it; and if anyone wants to call me some sort of a right wing extremist, feel free. I just do not give a flying fark at this point. This Administration has got it’s damned head on backwards about terrorism. I mean, U.S.S. Cole? Seriously Guys? This was an obvious case of terrorism and they are going shelve a case; because some idiot got a little water up his nose? 17 people innocent people, who were doing their jobs for the United States Military were killed on a boat and we’re worried about some towel-head getting a fair trial? How damned tone-deaf and stupid can you be?
In Closing: Conservatives and yes even some Republicans have said that the Democratic Party is soft on terrorism; even sympathetic to the terrorist cause. Democrats have denounced this assertion repeatedly in the past. However, now that the Democrats are now in power; it seems that they are ready and even in come cases eager to prove the Republicans and Conservatives to be absolutely correct.
I believe I speak for the good majority of Americans when I say that November 2, 2010 cannot come fast enough. It is time for change. Real Change. American cannot wait much longer.
Others: Weekly Standard, Politics Daily, Michelle Malkin, National Review, Hot Air, For The Record, Wake up America, Firedoglake, Weasel Zippers, Gateway Pundit and Commentary
The Continuing Saga of the Cabbie Stabber and Park51 Mosque
Can be read about here. Quite frankly, I am sick of writing about it. A good shot of who this guy is, can be found here. By the way, his lawyer says the stabber was not motivated by hatred of Muslims. But by another common evil; alcohol. Oh sure, blame the drunks! Speaking of Drunks, what the heck was this all about?
Anyhow, there it all is. I have other stuff to write about.
UPDATED: The Obligatory Cab Driver Stabbed because he is a Muslim Posting New York Post shows its stupidity
I really did not want to touch this, until ALL of the facts are out. There are many on the right, who are distorting this story badly. Further more, there are some on the left who are as well.
Here is the truth. A Cab Driver picks up a man; the cab driver is a Muslim. The man asks driver if he is a Muslim, the driver says yes, and the man proceeds to stab him rather badly. The Cab Driver locks his car and calls 911.
The man who did it, worked for a production company as a volunteer and went to Pakistan. He also did work for the Park51 group as well, as did the company he worked for.
The problem with these stories is this; both sides, left and right, rush to make it one of their own —- instead of waiting for the facts to come out.
The facts are, my friends, that a Muslim man was stabbed and is in the hospital; and there is a lone nut in a jail cell somewhere. I think that both sides of this debate need to take a step back and relax a little. Because this is going to keep on, until someone ends up dead; and that my friends, is the last thing we need right now.
I believe that both sides, left and right, both need to cool it. Before the unthinkable happens.
Update: The New York Post shows it’s damned inane stupidity, their headline:
Driver claims his throat was slashed after telling passenger he was Muslim
Claims? CLAIMS??!?!? Wow. 😯
Pardon my sarcasm here, but, “Yeah we put claims, because you cannot ever trust those stupid sand nigger towel heads, they never tell truth….”
Oh.My.God I cannot believe Murdock would stoop that low. 🙁
I am ashamed of being even a moderate-minded Conservative at this moment. 😡
Update: Fixer Grammar error in title of posting. Thanks to commenter Blog Responder. 😀
Unreal: Mosque Supporter says Holocaust Survivor “Didn’t learn his lesson”
You know, I have expressed my dismay at those on the far right, that are using that Mosque in New York as a political issue; and are fanning the flames of extremism — not to mention are just grandstanding this issue to death.
Well, I regret to report, that it is happening on the left or at least among the Mosque supporters too:
The Video via JammieWearingFool: (CONTENT WARNING – LANGUAGE)
Obviously a Michael Bloomberg and Barack Obama supporter. Classy guy. He calls the old man an unpatriotic, treasonous piece of garbage. A shame how the lamestream media ignored this.
The left loves to call anyone who disagree with them bigots and haters. Just get a look at the vein-popping rage of this man and tell me he’s not consumed with hatred.
While Mr. JWF’s opinion may be slightly over the top; telling or saying that Holocaust survivor “Didn’t learn his lesson,” is just beyond the pale. I may support this Mosque’s LEGAL right to build this building, (Moral right is another story…) I do not support that sort of hatred.
My message to the Mosque supporters; if you think that spewing this sort of garbage and allowing yourself to be taped is going to help your cause, you are very highly mistaken. Bashing anyone, especially Jews; that are opposed to this Mosque only hurts your cause. I will not rush to judgment and call this man a leftist, because I do not know this, neither does JWF; but I digress. Therefore, I will just file this under general stupidity.
The Republican Party, The Tea Party, Bloggers, and YOU
Well, we lost another one!
Looks like Dan Amato, better known as Digger has called it quits with the Republican Party:
To all of you ignorant Tea Party people out there who are continuing to think that you can somehow co-opt the GOP and turn it in the right direction, John McCain is your answer from the Republican National Committee and the top echelons of this corrupt and unfixable party. Their continued support of candidates like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins is an abomination.
As for the Tea Party movement, it has been wholly co-opted by the likes of Dick Armey, a fiercely pro-amnesty for illegal aliens proponent who will never change his ways. And the Tea Partiers stand at the sidelines as he speaks for them. They are the equivalent of the “moderate Muslims” who stand by and do nothing while the extremists take over their “religion”. Let Armey lead you down into the doldrums of the continued bottomless cesspool that is our political system – for it will never right itself. You sheep out there who are supporting the parties and the Armey backed Tea Party – being steered by FreedomWorks – should be disgusted with yourselves. You should have denounced Armey from day one, yet you did nothing as those of us who see what he truly is have been shouting it for more than a year. I see no action from any of you as he gallivants around the country talking for you. Silence is acceptance.
At one point I thought I would go independent for years and maybe the Republicans would turn themselves around and see the light, but that is not happening and it is not going to happen. There is no going back and I will never support the Republicans or the GOP again. The shortest straw has been pulled and placed on the camel’s back that is our country. I urge you to permanently declare your separation from the GOP – for life.
[….]
I will now actively work against the GOP in any manner that I can. I will actively work against the Democrats in any way that I can. As a matter of fact at this point I am seriously thinking of supporting Democrats. I will scream from the mountaintops the pure disgust that both parties have become and convince anyone I can to turn against them. I am of the mind that we need more Democrats in power, more progressives, more John McCains to leave our borders wide open and to allow our citizens to continue to be abused. For what else will wake them up but mass raping, pillaging and murderous attacks?
He is referring, of course, to the reelection of John McCain. Even AllahPundit was not happy about it:
I can’t believe, in this year of all years, we couldn’t find a better challenger for McCain than this guy. It’s 60/29 as I write this. What a travesty.
I can really understand the feelings of both of these guys; I really can. I have to confess something here —- I was, from day one, extremely skeptical of the Tea Party Movement. At first, it sounded like an awesome idea and at first, it was. The problem is this, it was co-oped by movers and shakers within the Republican establishment; people like Dick Army and yes, Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin might be a good motivator; but like it or not, but she is one of the Party faithful within the Republican Party. Like it or not; but the Tea Party was never a “Republican” or even a “Conservative” movement. It was simply a movement of people who were disgusted by what was happening in the Government. The tragic thing that happened was that it was co-oped by special interest groups with the Republican establishment and more tragically, within the beltway. The Tea Party movement was also feasted upon, by people wanting to make a quick buck on the emotions of the American people.
Some would say, “Did you not do this?” To this, I say, No. I did not. I simply wrote about the movement and gave my feelings on it. I also reported the true account of one of the biggest Tea Party protests in Washington D.C. —- for that I did receive a donation from many readers. Of which I was very shocked that I received them. However, I was very grateful for it. Hopefully, those people are still reading here.
The main question in many minds of many people is:
Where do we go from here?
The answer to that question is this; we keep electing candidates that represent Tea Party values: Low Taxes, Responsible Government and so forth.
I think one of tragedies of the Tea Party was that there was some assumption within the ranks of the Tea Party Movement itself, that this group of unaffiliated activists were going to coalesce into this organized Third Party that was going to unseat the Republican Party as the Party of Conservatism or at least, be this alternative to the Democratic Party in the United States of America. I am afraid that this just was not a feasible goal. The Republican Party is controlled by very well financed and well heeled contributors. Not to mention the fact that there are legions of special interest groups and political action committees, that are loyal to the Republican cause. Basically, without over simplifying it; the Tea Party Movement was outgunned by the one thing, that these activists were protesting against the misuse of in Washington D.C. ——– Money.
Let me be clear, (Thank you Mr. President, for making the best statement of clarity, into a punchline! You Bastard! 😉 ) this should not be considered my “Tea Party – Rest in Peace” posting, as it is not. I believe that the Tea Party did and still is accomplishing what it set out to do. The Tea Party, along with social media, has changed the game for politics; especially Conservative politics. I believe that the Tea Party, along with the election of Barack Obama and also the huge economic crash of 2008; has for the most part, united the Conservative movement — at least on fiscal issues —- now, foreign policy, and social issues, that is another story! —- The Party was sorely divided under President George W. Bush. This became very apparent in 2006, when the Iraq War got very ugly. Oh, there are some who continue to hold out, and point at everyone who disagrees with them, as “Neo-Cons.” (Yes, I know I used the term in a previous entry!) But this group is a very small minority within the Conservative movement. I would dwell on that subject more, but I just do not see wasting any space on them. They call themselves “Alternative Right”, I have a name for them; it is called Neo-Nazi. Hate, not matter how intellectualized or nuanced —- is still hate. This is why I broke away from the Paleo-Conservative camp. The hardcore Paleo-Conservative camp is simply reactionary politics distilled down to it’s simplest forms. Contrary to what they might like to publish, Paleo-Conservatives disdain for Identity Politics on the Left and Right is NOT about the disliking of the Identity Politics itself; but rather for the sole purpose of hating anyone, who is of a different color, race or creed than the majority of Paleo-Conservatives, who are, in fact, mostly older White, well-educated, Americans. There is a word for it, it is called Nativism.
However, this is not to say that the Wilsonian sect of the Republican Party is not a real thing; oh it is, and it is very real and very powerful and quite well financed. They even have their own magazine. However, the influence of the Wilsonian sect, within the Republican Party is waning. The Republican Party has had a “Come to Jesus” moment on Foreign Policy and even War. The notable exception is this idiotic Park 51 situation. Like it or not; but there are some Wilsonian Conservatives who are milking that little issue for every political bit that it is worth. Further more, they are using tactics right out of Adolf Hitler’s handbook. Propaganda is evil, I do not give a damn who is doing it or why. It is wrong and it needs to stop.
In closing, let me say this to whomever Conservative or Republican happens to read this Blog entry. We as Conservatives and yes, as Republicans —- can do two things. We can take the path of extremism and we can die is a political party. Which would be the absolute delight of the Neo-Liberal left — or we can take the sensible path. We can ignore the Wilsonians and we can take a path of moderation, understanding, and measurement. We can also take a path of integrity —- and we can live and exist as a Party, as a people and as a movement.
We must make this choice.
We must choose Righteousness and not foolishness.
We must make that choice very quickly.
Because darkness is upon us and a time will come — when no man can work.
Video: Words of the so-called “moderate Muslim” Imam of Ground Zero Mosque
As AllahPundit would say, Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf: “We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al Qaida has on its hands of innocent non Muslims. You may remember that the US-led sanctions against Iraq led to the death of over half a million Iraqi children. This has been documented by the United Nations. And when Madeleine Albright, who has become a friend of mine over the last couple of years, when she was Secretary of State and was asked whether this was worth it, said it was worth it.
Pamela Geller has more, and I highly recommend that you read this one. Even I, as a Moderate Conservative, find this most interesting.
Quite bluntly, this guy has ZERO business being at, near or whatever, Ground Zero, New York or anywhere else in the United States.
But, as we know, the liberal media, will not touch this, because it really does not fit the narrative. Nor do I expect President Obama to intervene here either. Because we all know that Muslims don’t cut one another. (I mean, after all, he did have a Muslim daddy AND step-daddy…)
Update: Memeornadum Thread.
Iraq gets first unmanned bomber
Any other time, I would not give two flips about something like this; but seeing the news that I saw last night. Um, I am a bit inclined to be a bit worried.
Last Night the New York Times reported the following:
TEHRAN — Thirty-six years after construction began under the shah, Iran finally opened its first nuclear power plant at a ceremony on Saturday.
Attended by senior officials from Iran and Russia, which helped build the plant, the ceremony marked the beginning of the transfer of low-enriched uranium fuel rods from a storage site into the plant. Officials of both countries said that Saturday’s events signified the opening, not the startup, of the plant near Bushehr, in southern Iran.
The plant itself is not controversial, because the Russians plan to provide fuel for it and to remove spent fuel that could be used to make weapons. But the opening was sure to upset United States diplomats, who had encouraged Russia to delay it as a way to add to economic sanctions imposed on Iran because of its refusal to cease enrichment of uranium at its other nuclear facilities. Although Iran denies that it is using its civilian nuclear program to mask a plan to build a bomb, many Western countries are dubious.
Which is not exactly true. If this news source can be trusted; Haartz is reporting the following:
Iran will continue to enrich its own uranium, Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki told the country’s semi-official Fars news agency on Saturday, hours after Russian nuclear fuel began to be inserted into Iran’s first nuclear reactor.
Iranian and Russian engineers began the weeklong operation to load uranium fuel into the Bushehr nuclear power plant, a major milestone as Tehran forges ahead with its atomic program despite U.N. sanctions.
Last week, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters the United States felt that the fact that the Bushehr reactor would operate solely on Russian fuel proved that “underscores that Iran does not need its own enrichment capability if its intentions, as it states, are for a peaceful nuclear program.”
Gibbs added that the Bushehr plant proved “to the world that, if the Iranians are sincere in a peaceful program, their needs can be met without undertaking its own enrichment program, which call into question its motives.
Having made that point; I want to direct your attention to this little gem, which popped into my RSS this morning.
This comes via AP, which comes to me via the Daily Caller:
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Sunday inaugurated the country’s first domestically-built, long-range, unmanned bomber aircraft, calling it an “ambassador of death” to Iran’s enemies.
Speaking to a group of officials Ahmadinejad said, “The jet, as well as being an ambassador of death for the enemies of humanity, has a main message of peace and friendship.”
The goal of the aircraft is to “keep the enemy paralyzed in its bases,” he said, adding that the jet is for deterrence and defensive purposes.
The president championed the country’s military self-sufficiency program, and said it will continue “until the enemies of humanity lose hope of ever attacking the Iranian nation.”
The 4-meter-long unmanned plane, dubbed the Karrar or striker in Farsi, was inaugurated on the national day for the country’s defense industry in a ceremony aired live on state TV.
No details were provided on the craft’s capabilities.
Iran has been producing its own light, unmanned surveillance aircraft since the late 1980s.
The ceremony came a day after Iran began to fuel its first nuclear power reactor, with the help of Russia, amid international concerns over the possibility of a military dimension to its nuclear program.
Iran insists it is only interested in generating electricity.
Call me overly paranoid, But I don’t quite believe that Iran is just using that plant for generating electricity. I mean, a plant opens one day; and nobody is quite sure what fuel that they will be using. The next very next day, Iran debuts a unmanned drone, which can drop a bomb? Sorry, but I find that just a bit unnerving. Hopefully, someone at the State Department will see the story and go, “um, Barry?” and let the President know about this. However, I do not expect that the President will be inclined to do anything about it. I mean, after all, we did just get out of Iraq; and we are still very busy with Afghanistan as well.
It could very well be, that this drone is to basically taunt and a feeble attempt to put fear into Israel. However, I am inclined to believe that it will have just the opposite effect. Either way, this should be an interesting story to follow.
I just hope that the President, his Administration and our State Department are taking this as seriously, as they should be.
Further more, I do not expect the liberal media to get into any sort of huff about this either; as they do not see the threat of Iran, like those of us, who know what idiot leader of that Country is capable of; plainly, the man is crazy and is a Jew hater and there is no telling what he might use that drone for. If I were Israel, I would be preparing for war. Because it is quite obvious that this is what Iran wants.
Update: Now a Memeorandum Thread.
The Classless Left: Exhibit M for Military Disrespect
This here, is one of the biggest reasons why I never, ever, vote for a Democrat, ever again.
The Story via Big Peace:
I still clearly remember the day that I was summoned home by my oldest son Kristofer to find the Navy officers and chaplain waiting inside my home to tell me the most painful and agonizing words I would ever hear, “We are sorry to inform you that your son Marc Alan Lee was killed in action.”
Marc Alan Lee
I have always been a patriot and understood that our men and women serving have paid for my freedoms but since the day Marc willingly sacrificed his life, I understand in a much deeper way the cost and sacrifice that our brave warriors and their families make. “Freedom isn’t free” is a reality not just a patriotic slogan.
[….]
Numerous times over the past four years I have confronted the antics of Jodie Evans and her anti-war Code Pink cronies. We’ve all seen the nightly news with them being arrested time and time again throwing their leftist temper tantrums with their pink boa feathers wrapped around their necks as they kick and scream like a two-year-old throwing a tantrum to get attention. They have sent over $600,000.00 to the terrorists in Fallujah, or as they called them, “freedom fighting” heroes. You would think treasonous acts like this would have them locked in jail. Over and over they have attacked our military recruiting offices causing thousands of dollars of damage to the offices and threatening the recruiters.
In 2008 they barricaded the recruiting office in Berkeley with the blessing of the Berkeley City Council. We at Move America Forward had all we could stomach when we heard them tell the Marines they were unwelcome, unwanted intruders, not in Iraq or Afghanistan but on American soil in Berkeley, California. Americans from across the nation joined us in Berkeley to counter-protest these anti-war hippies. Numerous times they told me they support the troops but not the war, yet over and over when I asked if they had sent care packages, phone cards, written letters, or helped the families left behind in anyway, they conveniently couldn’t remember anything they had done. Yet they had a successful fundraiser to send $600,000.00 to our enemies in Iraq? Yet Jodie Evans and her Code Pink degenerates taunted me and made light of my son’s sacrifice telling me, “Your son deserved to die in Iraq if he was stupid enough to go over there.” It took every ounce of reserve in my body to not level these idiots to the ground. These same people who call terrorists “freedom fighters” says that my son, who gave up his life for their freedoms, deserved death.
Go read the rest of that. What a disgrace! ….and yet the Democrats claim to be the part “of the people.” More like the party of the degenerate bastards.
Disgusting. 😡
Others: Power Line, Weasel Zippers, BLACKFIVE, Sister Toldjah, American Power, Gateway Pundit, Big Hollywood and National Review
BREAKING NEWS: Looks like the guy behind the Park 51 project is not so ‘Moderate’ after all
This comes via Ace, who has the flaming skull out on this one. (H/T The Other McCain and via Weasel Zippers)
To set this up, Ace says:
Remember: You — Obama and the MFM — went out a limb to vouch for this guy, putting the whole of your credibility and judgment behind the proposition that he is a well-meaning, peaceful moderate and you’d have to be crazy to think otherwise.
[….]
We know the first, second, and last defense that will be screamed by the left: B-b-but Bush said he was moderate….!
Yeah? And? Bush didn’t stake his political future on the man’s purported “moderation,” either.
Thanks to LauraW., who was out looking for actual news while I was jagging off in the comments.
Let Me Repeat: Obama and the MFM staked the entirety of their credibility and judgment on the assertion that this was a moderate man interested only in peace, and of course in no way a supporter of terrorism, and anyone who suspected otherwise was an ignorant bigot with a heart full of hatred.
So let’s see. Let’s see.
Let’s see whose judgment was sound and whose judgment was really full of ignorance and hatred — hatred for the concerns of their fellow Americans.
Headline Credit: Dr. Varno proposed “Unmosqued” and I agree.
The news comes via Pamela Geller, whom I admire for he relentless pursuit of radical Jihad and Radical Islam:
Steve Emerson has unearthed 13 hours of audio tape of Imam Rauf. Emerson and his team of investigators has spent the past four weeks going through the newly found material. Rauf is a “radical extremist cleric who cloaks himself in sheep’s clothing.”
Among the shocking revelations Emerson’s team will reveal next week — they found Rauf:
Defending wahhabism – a puritanical version of Islam that governs Saudi Arabia
Calling for the elimination of Israel by claiming a one-nation state, meaning no more Jewish State.
Defending Bin Laden’s violence
Demonstrating that there is a lot more to this man than merely a cleric.
Here is the audio link to the show: Click Here
Steve Emerson’s website is here.
I am going to be perfectly honest with you. I have been trying to keep an open mind on this subject and trying not demagogue this issue; but try to present all sides, as I am a more moderate classic liberal/Conservative person. But if these allegations are true, then my position will change. Because I do not want a Mosque or whatever the hell this thing is; being ran by someone like this, at all.
I, like many others I’m sure, await to hear these recordings. I cannot wait for them to come out. I should point out, that there is video of this man saying that American basically created Osama Bin Laden. I have seen that; but this is entirely different. Again, I await these recordings.
Update: Now a thread at Memeornadum
Cartoon of the Day
Mosque To Avoid
The managing editor of Townhall Magazine called Diversity Lane “very, very well done.” And Michigan Review described it as “laugh out loud funny.” Why not make this the day you discover the best in conservative comedy today at Diversity Lane?
For more fun visit the website/blog at www.diversitylane.com or go directly to the blog at www.diversitylane.wordpress.com.
Video: “So Many”
This powerful video comes via No Sheeples Here: (H/T POWIP via RSM)
If these people, if you want to call them that, cared about dialog, they would move this site.
The Classless Left: Exhibit AG for Alan Grayson
This video comes via HotAir.com:
Ah, Yes, let’s blame the same guy, who we want to weigh in on an issue such as that, “Whatever you want to call it” that is two blocks away from ground zero.
I hate to be the one to bring this up….But… I will; for years and years and years, White Nationalists and Paleo-Conservative types have been arguing that Jewish people are morally and intellectually inferior people. I have never bought into that sort of hate, but in this idiot’s case —- I think that they might actually have a point.
I’m not sure who is running against Allan Greyson; but I sure hope like hell that he wins!
The Extremely Sadly Obligatory “People think President Obama is a Muslim more and more everyday” Posting
Sigh….
Why must I write about insanely stupid things such as this?
I mean, is being a moderate Conservative automatically a mandate to sign on with the stupid now? If it is, I must have not have gotten the memo on this at all. Because this bunch of blatant stupidity, I find to be most distressing — almost to the point of shutting my blog and disappearing from Politics altogether.
What I am griping about, is this incredibly stupid poll out, which says that more and more people believe that President Obama is a Muslim. I mean the man’s Father gives to his kid an Arab middle name, because the man was a Muslim at one time, and everyone freaks and says, “He’s a Muslim!” or in some quarters, “He’s a nigger Muslim!” —- Depending on where you are, north or south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Yes, I went there, you are very welcome. Figure if Dr. Laura can go there, so can I.
Seriously, folks, I am honestly beginning to wonder if some members of the Anglo-Saxon race are not inflicted with some sort of incurable disorder. I like to call it “Negro-Phobia,” White people are honestly frightened by anyone that looks, talks, acts, and even sounds different than they do. This is 2010, I thought we were over such nonsense; after all, we did elect the Nation’s first black President. Nevertheless, this nonsense is still being polled about, talked about and blogged about.
My question to my fellow Conservative is this; do you people honestly believe that this sort of idiotic nonsense is going to get the Republicans elected back into office in November? I mean, seriously!
What is fueling this sort of nonsense? Fear —– You know damned well the Republicans are playing that little card for all it is worth.
Look, I know the President is a socialist I get that. However, to accuse a man of lying about what his Religious leanings are, is just plain underhanded tripe. I mean, has all of the damned intellectualism disappeared out of the Conservative side of the Political fence for God’s sake? Have all of the men of wisdom within the ranks of Conservationism been replaced with Hillbilly Mouth breathing idiots, who have no concept of any sort intellectual thought?
I will not try to mislead my readers — at this point, I am seriously beginning to believe that Conservatives have officially jumped the damned shark on this little subject. I am not ready to official change to another political stripe or anything; because I have learned too much about the left, and much of it, I cannot stand. Nevertheless, this nonsense of accusing the first black President of the United States about lying to America, as to what God his subscribes to, is just very ridiculous.
Is this what the Republican Party has become? The President of the United States, who happens to be black and have Arab middle name has a dinner with a group of Muslims. The President tells a group of Arabs that are visiting the White House, that this Park 51 site — has the legal, not the moral, but the legal right to build in New York City and that the United States Government will not interfere with this process — and alone, that makes him a Muslim?
Another example: The economy is not recovering as fast or a well as the Democrats had hoped and that somehow means that President Obama is some sort cryptic-Muslim socialist that wants to overthrow the capitalistic system in America, and introduce us to Sharia law and Communism.
Do not laugh; I have heard such stuff out of the mouth of Glenn Beck himself and from other well-known Conservative Bloggers.
If this all somehow sounds familiar to some of my older readers, it should, the same very thing was said about President John F. Kennedy. There were actually Conservatives and yes, some Democrats who were going around shrieking that Kennedy would be taking orders from Rome. You see, Kennedy was Catholic and back in those days, a Catholic had never served as President of the United States. In fact, the issue got so bad, that Kennedy had to address the Southern Baptist Convention in 1960 to convince them and the rest of America that he would not be taking orders from Rome.
Fortunately, back then, it worked.
What you did not have in 1960 were Conservative Bloggers who were “hell bent” on destroying a President, for the simple fact that he is a Black Democrat. However, today, you do have them and there are many of them.
Look, I am going to make an admission to you all. I did not create this blog to attempt to destroy President Obama. I started this blog to criticize the President of the United States on his policies, when I thought that they were wrong, dumb, and misguided, and I will continue to do so. However, what I will not partake in is the silly idiotic partisan rumormongering that is not based on facts.
Having said all of that let me give an open message to the Conservative and Republican Blogging community:
I will not partake in this stupidity and if this is, what is required to be in with the “Cool Kids” in Conservative blogger, then by all means, count me is an outsider — Because I want nothing to do with this sort of stupidity.
Operation Iraqi Freedom has ended
The Videos via NBC Nightly News:
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Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
50,000 advisers remain. But, the worse….. Hopefully, is over.
If you served; thank you. 😀 I could never, ever express that in any fashion that is remotely worth a darn. At least not without sounding like some sort of an idiot.
What happens now? This, via NYT:
To protect the civilians in a country that is still home to insurgents with Al Qaeda and Iranian-backed militias, the State Department is planning to more than double its private security guards, up to about 7,000, according to administration officials who disclosed new details of the plan. Defending five fortified compounds across the country, the security contractors would operate radars to warn of enemy rocket attacks, search for roadside bombs, fly reconnaissance drones and even staff quick reaction forces to come to the aid of civilians in distress, the officials said…
The department’s plans to rely on 6,000 to 7,000 security contractors, who are also expected to form “quick reaction forces” to rescue civilians in trouble, is a sensitive issue, given Iraqi fury about shootings of civilians by American private guards in recent years. Administration officials said that security contractors would have no special immunity and would be required to register with the Iraqi government. In addition, one of the State Department’s regional security officers, agents who oversee security at diplomatic outposts, will be required to approve and accompany every civilian convoy, providing additional oversight.
MSNBC and WaPo both have some seriously excellent articles on soldiers reflections on coming out.
Keith Olbermann obviously, is overjoyed:
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Blackfive which is a very excellent Milblogger has much to say about this. I will be honest; I am very disappointed that more of the Conservative Bloggers are not covering this. It seems that they are more interested in the Mosque story. Which is highly disappointing. My high kudos to AllahPundit over at HotAir, for at least giving the Military the dignity that they deserve.
And now, for a special comment from me, your humble host, about the ending of this long seven year war.
I think I can speak for the great majority of America — I am just damned glad it is finally done, over, finished. For seven long years, our Nation sat, rent asunder, divided over what could possibly be called the biggest blunder that a Presidential Administration, not to mention a Nation, a Congress, and Country could ever have pulled off — A decision to go to war with a Country based upon now what is now known as horrifically flawed intelligence. Without over simplifying it and at the risk of sounding like a far-leftist Liberal —- Oops, we blew it and blew it bad —– Because of this very idiotic blunder, 4415 of our Nation’s finest young men and woman, ended up going to a damned meat grinder and losing their lives. For a war, that had absolutely nothing, zero, nada to do with the attacks on the World Trade Center, The Pentagon and on Flight 93 that the Government claims was on the way to the White House on September 11, 2001. In short and quite bluntly, we screwed the pooch on that one, and whole bunch of Military people were killed.
I say the word “Claims,” because the United States Government has not exactly been very forthcoming about all of the evidence that they have, which supports the claims made by the Government about what really happened on 9/11. Now, before anyone begins to think it; no, I am not a 9/11 “truther.” No more, than I am a far leftist or even a damned Republican. However, I will say to you that I do not trust my Government. Because to blindly trust the Government is to never question what they say to you; and to never question or challenge is to be a slave or a servant; and the last time I checked, I am not, nor have I ever been, a slave to anyone or a servant of anyone, save the Lord Jesus Christ. That even that I readily admit to being quite lousy at doing, at times.
Having said all that let me say this:
We won.
No thanks, of course, to the Democratic Party, The libertarian leftists, The Ron Paul people, The Pat Buchanan types, The Paleo-Conservatives in General, the far-leftists, and the liberal, owned, controlled, and financed media in this God-forsaken Country of ours.
However, all praise, honor and any sort of decree is to be given to the United States Armed Forces. They simply kicked Al-Qaeda’s ass in Iraq. The US Military smoked them damned towel heads from one end of Iraq to the other. Most of their dead bodies are in Iraqi Cemeteries; which is a good place for them, if you ask me.
Personally, I am glad this conflict is over. I am also glad, that we actually won. There was no Vietnam-like ending, we left victorious.
We won.
In the future, we should be much more careful.
We also should remember those who did not make it out alive.
However, today, we dance, we rejoice.
Because tomorrow, we go back to work and we finish the damned job on the war on terror.
Video: “We Remember”
Constitutional issues aside, this mosque is just morally wrong. Considering the fact that this developers of Park 51 have refused to meet with Governor Patterson, they just do not care about morals at all. Hell, even Howard Dean is saying move the darn thing! Howard Dean people! Is that not any indication to the Democrats that this just might not be a good idea?!?!?!
Anyhow, Watch this and tell me you support that damn towel-head mall; which is what it really is.
The Round-Up: Gateway Pundit, TPMDC, Weasel Zippers, Moonbattery, Townhall.com, Sweetness & Light, The Mahablog and Nice Deb
Mosque supporters cry “HALP! BOOOSH!”
You know that you are living in bizarro world, when people who, at one point, hated Bush with a passion are now wanting his help.
Via the Washington Examiner:
There’s a new argument emerging among supporters of the Ground Zero mosque. Distressed by President Obama’s waffling on the issue, they’re calling on former President George W. Bush to announce his support for the project, because in this case Bush understands better than Obama the connection between the war on terror and the larger question of America’s relationship with Islam. It’s an extraordinary change of position for commentators who long argued that Bush had done grievous harm to America’s image in the Muslim world and that Obama represented a fresh start for the United States. Nevertheless, they are now seeing a different side of the former president.
“It’s time for W. to weigh in,” writes the New York Times’ Maureen Dowd. Bush, Dowd explains, understands that “you can’t have an effective war against the terrorists if it is a war on Islam.” Dowd finds it “odd” that Obama seems less sure on that matter. But to set things back on the right course, she says, “W. needs to get his bullhorn back out” — a reference to Bush’s famous “the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!” speech at Ground Zero on September 14, 2001.
I have in front of me, the official George W. Bush response to this situation and here it is:
You assholes did not want me in office the whole entire time that I was there; and now you want me to come bail you out, because your wonderful "Magic Negro" President cannot articulate a damn simple thought correctly? You morons are out of your damned minds!
Actually, President Bush’s office had no comment on the matter. But YOU KNOW darned well that is what President Bush is thinking right about now.
Others: live.washingtonpost.com, Michelle Malkin, TPMDC, Big Journalism, Weasel Zippers, IMAO, protein wisdom, The Daily Caller, Hot Air, iOwnTheWorld.com, Tim Blair, Sister Toldjah, Gateway Pundit and NewsBusters.org
Has Pelosi lost her marbles?
It appears so….
Audio:
Via the Washington Times:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, California Democrat, called for an investigation of those who are protesting the building of the Ground Zero Mosque on Tuesday. She told San Francisco’s KCBS radio
[….]
“There is no question there is a concerted effort to make this a political issue by some. And I join those who have called for looking into how is this opposition to the mosque being funded,” she said. “How is this being ginned up that here we are talking about Treasure Island, something we’ve been working on for decades, something of great interest to our community as we go forward to an election about the future of our country and two of the first three questions are about a zoning issue in New York City.” (h/t Kristinn)
Calls to investigate the funding for those proposing the $100 million “Cordoba House” have fallen on deaf ears, though, as New York’s Mayor Mike Bloomberg has described such an investigation as “un-American.”
Ms. Pelosi called the Ground Zero mosque an “urban development decision” for New Yorkers to work through. Her remarks happened on the heels of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, parting ways with President Barack Obama on the issue. Mr. Reid suggested the mosque should be built somewhere else.
Heck, even the liberals do not like this idea! For all of their faults; and I know this personally, because I was a left of center voting Democrat at one point — the Liberals do believe in the first amendment. So, I will give them credit there. Anyhow, I think Nancy Pelosi ought to be checked, because I really do not think she is speaking with a clear mind or something. Because she just is not make any sense here. Investigate people for using their right to free speech? It just does not make any damned sense at all.
Others: Michelle Malkin, The Other McCain, Ace of Spades HQ, Big Peace, Townhall.com, Questions and Observations, Hugh Hewitt’s TownHall Blog, Daily Kos, GayPatriot, Fausta’s Blog, National Review, Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler, Red Dog Report, Nice Deb, Erick’s blog, Freedom’s Lighthouse, The Powers That Be, Outside the Beltway, Associated Press, The Daily Caller, Daily Pundit, Sweetness & Light, Weasel Zippers, Pirate’s Cove, Right Pundits, theblogprof, Big Hollywood, Patterico’s Pontifications, Coalition to Honor Ground Zero, Creative Minority Report, The Camp Of The Saints, Cold Fury, Wizbang, Commentary, Confederate Yankee, Gates of Vienna, NewsBusters.org, Say Anything, The Politico and Pajamas Media and more via Memeorandum
An Alternative View on the Ground Zero Mosque
I realize that this is a very emotional issue for many; and the last thing I ever want to be accused of, is repression of free speech.
Having said that, I present an alternative view on the Mosque at Ground Zero:
The Feckless Far-Right: Exhibit ZB For Zionist Bigotry
I never thought that in a million years that I would be siding with this Blogger. But damn it; he is right.
Guess where this quote is from:
President Obama came out Friday evening in favor of the Islamic supremacist mega-mosque at the hallowed ground of the 9/11 attack.
Obama told the ummah (at an Iftar dinner on the third night of Ramadan) that he supports a triumphal mosque on the cherished site where Islamic jihadists attacked.
If you had any doubt who Obama stood with on 9/11, there can be no doubt in our minds now.
Un-farking-believable. 😯
I’m really honestly worried about what is becoming of the Conservative Blogosphere. 🙁
You tell me the difference between these two quotes
There is something eerily familiar about this quote:
“This is not about freedom of religion,” Cornyn said. “I do think it’s unwise to build a mosque in the site where 3,000 Americans lost their lives as the result of a terrorist attack.”Voters “sense that they’re being lectured to, not listened to” by Democrats, he said. “The American people will render their verdict.”
Is it just me, or does that that sound much like:
Today I have stood, where once Jefferson Davis stood, and took an oath to my people. It is very appropriate then that from this Cradle of the Confederacy, this very Heart of the Great Anglo-Saxon Southland, that today we sound the drum for freedom as have our generations of forebears before us done, time and time again through history. Let us rise to the call of freedom-loving blood that is in us and send our answer to the tyranny that clanks its chains upon the South. In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny . . . and I say . . . segregation today . . . segregation tomorrow . . . segregation forever.
I am just saying….
This issue will be the death the Republican Party, if they are not very careful. They are giving the Democrats the talking point that they need to defeat them in 2010…and 2012. At this point, as much as it pains me to say it —-They deserve it.
Update: Seeing that no one seems to get what I am trying to say. I will explain it. What is happening here is this; the Republican Party is pandering to the irrational fears of the general public towards Muslims. Just like George Wallace did with the southern Democrats, when they pandered to the White people in the South and their irrational fears of black people back in 1963. It is the same hate, the same pandering and the exact same bigotry. The only difference is, one was directed at blacks and this one is directed at Muslims and more broadly toward Arabs.
I have seen all of the rationalizations for all of this nonsense, and it is nothing more than vary nuanced bigotry. Only difference is that we did not use Arabs for slaves and did not lynch any of them. At least not yet. But I believe if the Republicans had their way; we would be lynching them, all of them, for what happened on 9/11.
Now this is not to say that I am not aware of the danger of Islamic terrorism or unaware or unwilling to accept the fact that there are Muslims who wish to impose Sharia Law in this Country. I am quite aware of that. But there is a big difference between awareness and bigotry; and this nonsense here is nothing more than nuanced bigotry. Period.
If the Republican Party runs on a platform of Bigotry, they will lose in 2010 & 2012
I figured this is sort of ugly was coming, and I was ready for it.
Via the Politico:
The harsh Republican response to President Barack Obama’s defense of a mosque near ground zero marks a dramatic shift in the party’s posture toward Islam — from a once active courtship of Muslim voters to a very public tolerance after Sept. 11 to an openly aired sense of mistrust.
Republican leaders have largely abandoned former President George W. Bush’s post-Sept. 11 rhetorical embrace of American Muslims and his insistence — always controversial inside the party — that Islam is a religion of peace. This weekend, former Bush aides were among the very few Republicans siding with Obama, as many of the party’s leaders have moved toward more vocal denunciations of Islam’s role in violence abroad and suspicion of its place at home.
The shift plays to a hostility toward Islam among many Republican voters, and it fits with traditional Republican attacks on Democratic weakness on security policy.
“Bush went against the grain of his own constituency,” said Allen Roth, a political aide to conservative billionaire Ron Lauder and, independently, a key organizer of the fight against the mosque. “This is part of an underlying set of security issues that could play a significant role in the elections this November.”
This past election cycle in 2008. I voted libertarian; for one, I did not like John McCain’s running mate. For two, I noticed that the Republican Party was running on a platform of bigotry. The whole using of 9/11 imagery during the Republican convention sickened me to my core. It was after this, that I decided that my vote was going to Bob Barr and not to John McCain.
Yeah, this issue is going to play a significant role alright; and that is to the sound defeat of the Republicans come 2012 and possible here in 2010. The truth is folks, that independent voters, for the most part; Reject any sort of Bigotry towards anyone of any race. If the Republican Party believes that they are going to win this election by stoking the fears of the people — they are going to be in a very huge surprise come November 2, 2012 and possibly even in 2010.
So, to the Republican Party, drop this agenda of bigotry towards Muslims and those of Arab decent; or there will be one less vote for the Republican Party come 2012 —- Mine.
Update: To the idiot attempting to comment with the Conspiracy theory crap. Please, take your “Muslim Thunder” crap elsewhere. There is only one thing I detest worse the stupid Republicans and that is stupid liberals. That is all.
President Obama: The writ of our Founders must endure
This is an editorial Blog posting that I detest having to write; I detest having to say that someone that I am opposed to ideologically — is right. As you know, President Barack Obama has literally been at war with the far right politically since he took office. The President, so far, really has not been fighting back, as far as this writer is concerned — against the attacks of the far right.
That changed tonight.
As some of you know, I and many other bloggers have been sounding the alarm against this so-called “Ground Zero” Mosque and Cultural center that is going to be built two blocks away from ground zero in Manhattan. Please, believe me when I tell you, that I happen to think that this is one of the most tone-deaf things; if not, the MOST tone-deaf thing, that anyone, of any Religious stripe, could possibly want to do.
However, we as Americans must look at the most paramount issue, that we as freedom loving Americans enjoy as citizens of this great Country of ours; the first amendment. As I was saying, Barack Obama has been at war with the far right, and as I said, he has not been firing back at the far right. Well, tonight he did a little more than just fire back.
He lobbed a damn hand grenade into the far right’s green zone.
President Obama gave, in this writer’s opinion, one of the best Constitutional smack downs that I have ever read in my life. I will not quote the entire speech as most of it I totally disagree with. However, President Obama did say one thing, which even I, as someone who disagrees with much of what the President says and does — cannot even remotely begin to argue. He said the following:
But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure.
Ouch.
The man might not be able to throw a baseball worth a damn. But his constitutional grenade tossing is very good.
In short, President Obama said, what I blogged recently, in response to some Religious Right nut job who wants to see all Mosque building stopped and that is that the Government cannot regulate religion at all. Although the President said it much better than I did. But, I digress.
As much as I know, that it makes many of my friends on the right flank of me angry; the President has a very good point and yes, he is, for once, absolutely correct. September 11, 2001 was, and still is, to me, a horrific tragedy; but if the United States Government enacts policies that restrict religion, which is on par with Nazi fascism or communism. We run the risk of becoming the Christian equivalent of a Muslim theocracy; and that my friend is bad, no matter how you slice it.
We cannot allow this nation to be bigoted toward any religion based upon cultural or Zionistic impulses. Because once we open that Pandora’s Box, we open the door for horrors that I really do not want to think about.
The Classless Left: Exhibit I for Insensitivity
Here is the official position of 9/11 by the liberal left in 2010: (H/T to Sister Toldjah via Infidels are Cool)
Given that they [Muslims] are such a small minority in this nation, it is odd that so many of our fellow citizens see them as such a threat. Yes, the 9/11 attacks were horrific, but they were more about optics than actual harm. The economy was already taking a hit before the Twin Towers fell. The reaction of the nation to seeing two major buildings in New York fall on T.V. has boosted the attack out of proportion. While the loss of even a single life is to be condemned and the devastation these deaths caused the families of those killed, more than this number of teens are killed every year in car crashes. These are also tragic losses but we do not make the kind of high profile issue of it that the 9/11 attacks are. – Source: DailyKOS
Wow. Just Wow. 😯
I wonder if President Obama agrees with that? It is to wonder.
Awesome Video: Montage of Military Reunions
(H/T to The Jawa Report)
I, as a libertarian-type of “Right of Center,” believe that any politician, who even has the remote thought of starting a war; ought to be strapped to a chair and FORCED to watch this video. (I’m talking to YOU Bill Kristol and John and Norman Podhartz!…..and any other damn Wilsonian Conservative out there!)